Hey You,

internet marketing experts-marketing notes
Soon you’ll be able to pimp your ride like this using what you learn here . . .

It’s Lewis a.k.a. Nerd #2 a.k.a. L.L. Cool Nerd.

If you pay any attention to the internet marketing expert Frank Kern’s marketing, you’ve seen or heard Trey Smith’s name. He’s Frank Kern’s cousin and is a prime example of someone who takes what he learns and goes out and applies it in the real world. These are the marketing notes I took on Shaune Clarke’s ultra exclusive interview he did with Trey back when he first exploded onto the scene.

As of the time I’m writing this, if you’ve ever joined his auto-responder list, you’ve seen his marketing for Apps, I think primarily for Apple stuff, but I may be wrong. When Shaune talked to here he was pretty new to internet marketing yet this pro was amazed at Trey’s ability to write email copy, which contributed to him to making $500 thousand dollars in his first year doing this.

This was pure content interview given to the intimate group of people who’d paid Shaune a huge fee to be in his coaching program. It’s my guess that there’s not very many people who’ve had the privilege of hearing this and now you get all of the gems I pulled from it.

Let the Shaune and Trey show begin . . .

Trey doesn’t follow the rules when it comes to writing auto responder messages.

If something is tested and works, he just rolls with it. He believes most people screw themselves by not telling a story. He likes pitching hard as hell while telling an elaborate story.

This is a style I believe mimics Ben Settle’s and Matt Furey’s style.

How Do You Do You Tell an Elaborate Story, But Not In a Long Winded Way? Do You Have a Structure For It?

What Shaune has found in his coaching programs is that their story ends up being long winded or they abbreviate and leave a bunch of gaps in it, there’s no connector for details they’re including.

For three sites Trey had up at the time he wrote AR (Auto-Responder) series for them without even thinking about it. He did it all in Aweber too. Shaune was amazed at this.

Trey feels that the reason his stories flowed so well is because it was done this way – back to back to back – with hardly minutes between them. I know this is one way screen writers or novel writers screw themselves is staying away from a story too long so this makes a lot of sense to me.

His writing is far from perfect, even getting people like PHD’s sending him emails about spelling errors in them, but they’re working so damn well for him that he’s afraid to touch them.

He admits to screwing up to and too up 99% of the time when he’s writing fast. He finds that when he slows down and gets meticulous, his copy gets boring. Shaune teaches that you don’t want to go so much by structure but that you want to feel it.

Trey has found that by writing things like “Slow down . . . Check this out . . . Read this . . .  This all amazing and here’s why . . . Go down and make sure you read this part very carefully . . .” stuff that stops them from skimming and driving them down into what he wants them to read, that this has been powerful for him.

Shaune believes that there’s stuff in Trey’s copy that you won’t see in any books. Trey is unconsciously competent and it freaks him out because Shaune was the only one on the scene who was talking about the stuff he was seeing Trey use in his copy so brilliantly.

Why Dealing One on One With Real Life People In a Sales Situation Gives You A Writing Advantage

Trey sold cars in his family business for a bit and had been the youngest person to ever join a local commercial real estate firm before he did any kind of internet marketing. Shaune was making a living doing multi-level marketing before he got online.

Trey sold his first car on the family car lot at 15 years old. Frank Kern worked on a lot the same way when they were growing up. At one point their family had 13 different dealerships in town with only 13,000 people.

His family was very steeped into selling as a result of this. By 24 years old, he was the GM for one of the car lots.

Shaune doesn’t feel you can learn all of how to sell in a book.

Shaune gets his students to critique each others work instead of him just doing it because he wants the students to get the distinctions on their own, the rhythms and flow of why people buy and why they respond.

Eugene Schwartz, the old school pro author of, “Breakthrough Advertising” is the only guy Shaune knows of who talks about subconscious material being the richest material you can include in your copy.

All great copywriters have subconscious material that comes out in their copy that is un-duplicatable, you can’t teach it. But what you can teach people is how to access their very own source of it so that it can surface for you which will be different than anyone else’s.

As far as Shaune knows, he’s the only teaching people how to get to this point. I’m telling you, this guy is a beast and his coaching is something else. Something I’ve never experienced anywhere else.

Most copywriters don’t bring a marketer to their copy. Bad ass copywriters need to have a marketing mindset.

Why Are You Using Two Voices In Your AR Sequence?

Shaune believes this is unbelievably simple and awesome. Here’s what Trey said to answer this question of why he came up with this idea and why he’s doing it . . .

So he’d have the guy who’s the employee would be saying, “The owner told me that he might send you a special email tomorrow,”. Then the owner’s emails would be more authoritative and to the point.

And what made this strategy work is that it’s two emails in the same day, from the same company, but because it’s from two different people, it’s not intrusive for the person on the receiving end.

Shaune, a trained copywriter and marketer, didn’t even realize he was getting two emails a day because this strategy worked so smoothly.

One guy is the story teller and the one talking up the site that he found. The other one is from the owner who says, “Get off your ass and go check this out . . .”

Having two voices allows you to say, “Here’s how good I am,” and then the more seductive story teller guy who can rave about you in a way you can’t rave about yourself in.

Trey gets people emailing both of these personalities in totally different ways according to how they perceive them.

This is HUGE because you’re going to be able to have connection and resonance with different parts of your list by using these two different personality styles and voices.

Trey has found that people gravitate to one or the other and Shaune believes this is part of why Trey is getting such an incredible response rate.

Now you’re not gonna read all the emails but if there’s something you want  your reader to know, and one of your personalities said it on day 6 of your AR, but the person didn’t open that email, maybe the other personality says it in a different way, in a different tone in email #8.

This is killer because you’ve got to operate from the premise that not everyone is reading every one of your AR messages. But two voices gives you double the opportunity for the person to experience your message in unique voices.

Trey has noticed though that when he writes in one of his voices in a novel-style, on-going story, he gets people replying to him saying, “I can’t wait to see what happens tomorrow. . .”

I’m going on record and saying I believe Trey is Andre Chaperon, the guy who built the Auto Responder Madness product which I can’t recommend highly enough, or Andre was heavily influenced by Trey. The reason I believe he is Trey is because the course is all written even though it could be both written and spoken and screen casted. And that name, Andre Chaperon, does sound like some shit Trey and Frank would find amusing. Especially seeing here that Trey is found of doing dual voices.

What Shaune finds so difficult when writing copy is trying to be different in what you’re saying without being numbingly obvious.

Things that are provocative and benefit-driven have been so over used that you have to get creative and start using new words and he’s always on the look out for words that are simple to understand, but are new and are understandable. It’s not easy because they’ve been taken and over used.

In the copy that Shaune is reviewing of Trey’s, he sees that Trey has used completely new verbiage that wasn’t obvious and was tricky. But then he shows people what it was in a way that was simple to understand. As opposed to being simple and compelling but overused.

Thesaurus.com is one of the tools that Trey keeps up constantly while writing. It’s one of his ninja weapons.

One of these terms Shaune was in awe of was, “Social Engineering King”. One of the things Shaune teaches in his course is to be conscious of what he calls “Pause Phrases” something that makes people stop the flow of reading because they don’t know what the hell it means or it doesn’t make sense.

This term is intriguing and you have to think about what it means. Then he goes through and explains what it means and tells how this was picked up from the seduction scene and you quickly can make the connection within the context of the copy.

Shaune is being all secretive here saying how he doesn’t want to give away the secrets of his coaching program, but he alludes below to three powerful things he teaches, which is seductive in and of itself. He’s talking about points in Trey’s copy where he uses these strategies and he’s making sure doesn’t complete the sentences telling him he wants to talk with him later, off the recording, about how brilliant they are.

This makes me think this interview was available somewhere else besides the interview but the only way I found it was in my coaching recordings. Good luck on finding it somewhere else.  But here goes the secrets he reveals . . .

Shaune teaches a principle called the power of three and he was raving about Trey’s use of it here in this sentence . . .

It’s time for you to make the move. It’s time for you to be the one in control. It’s time for you to be in the alpha.

Power of Three: There’s a big power in three in rhythm and cadence. The other great part of these sentences is the repetition of, “It’s time for you,”. All of these sentences are easy to say, “Yeah, yeah, yeah,” to.

These underneath the layers strategies are immensely powerful. You don’t want to overuse the power of three. You only want to use it when it’s brilliant.

Indirect Persuasion: This is something that Shaune is big on. It’s all about making people make an automatic conclusion without you overtly stating they should. It’s self-evident to the reader that this is what they should be thinking.

Reiteration: If you have something powerful you want to say, you want to reiterate it, you want to say it and then create an excuse to say it again. Sometimes this is as simple as, “Let me say that again . . .” What’s obvious is to say the same thing over again. But if you do this, you can bore the reader. But finding another way to say it is very persuasive.

Trey is using all of these elements in tandem. Example . . .

I could teach you how to make anyone do anything . . .

Anytime . . . 

And you know what is really scary? There’s absolutely . . .

Nothing to it.

He said the same thing twice. But look what he’s done. Long sentence, short sentence, long sentence, short sentence. And the two short sentences have the same cadence – anytime . . . nothing to it.

One of the elements that he threads through this message is the idea that makes people feel like an idiot if they don’t buy this product.

This isn’t taught in typical copywriting courses. It bleeds through from his other sales experience.

One line of this being used is, “As stupid as it sounds, I also include a 110% money back  guarantee” As stupid as it sounds, makes you want to agree with what comes after. It gently forces to agree with it or be stupid. Indirect persuasion.

Shaune pointed out Trey did this at the beginning of the message, the middle, and in the guarantee all leading to the conclusion of feeling like an idiot for not buying this.

Now one thing Trey did that Shaune was creaming in his pants about was the fact that Trey announced his 100% money back guarantee and said, “Nah, fuck that. Here’s a 110% money back guarantee . . .” He liked this because so many people reading copy nowadays gloss over guarantees. They expect them to be there. But Trey found a way to make sure it stood out. And this is one of the best places to reiterate because it’s such a dead place in copy.

Another thing Shaune loves is how he closes the message by saying . . . “Talk soon, T.”

The underneath dimension of this statement is that I’m your buddy. And if I’m your buddy, this is the way I’d sign off on this. Even though on the surface it’s not real. People who study copywriting would not do that because it wouldn’t jive with all the shit they studied.

If you look back at all of my posts, you’ll see this is how I sign off on all of the them. It’s been a few years since I’ve listened to this recording once and around the time I heard it is when we started this site. I wonder if I stole this from Trey back then and have been using it up to the very day? Hmph.

“Period. Point blank. There’s no more questions.

Go here now . . .”  

This was another example Shaune was impressed by in Trey’s close because he believes Trey knows when it’s ok to be forceful when asking for the sale. And the only way he gets away with using this in his copy is because of the stuff he’s done in the message above.

Now this is also something cool he gets to do because he’s working with two personalities. One guy would never say this, but the other would and it’s accepted by the audience.

What’s also smooth about that sentence is the use of the two P’s – Period and Point Blank. But you can over do this and make it look dumb so you have to be careful. It looks dumb when you’re trying to use alliteration and it’s cute and nursery rhyme like rather than impactful and natural.

What Shaune Ripped Trey’s Ass For Doing In His Copy

One part Shaune didn’t like is when Trey says in a message that he’s “gonna show you in the video exactly what the course looks like”.

People don’t give a shit what the course looks like. Shaune thinks he added it in there to imply “what it looks like when you buy it,” to be used as a positive affirmation of assuming the idea of them buying it.

Trey’s thinking behind using that line was to get people to take action and go watch the video. But there’s more compelling reasons to watch the video than, “seeing what the course looks like”. The implication here can be that you’re wanting to show them your pretty packaging. PEOPLE DON’T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT THE PACKAGING OR HOW MUCH SHIT IS PILED INTO A BOX. THEY CARE ABOUT WHAT THE BOX IS GOING TO DO TO SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS OR GET THEM WHAT THEY DESIRE.

You tease the content, not the way the content is delivered.

And Trey revealed to Shaune after he ripped his ass about this that this email didn’t perform that well, which only served to make Shaune appear even more God-like with his powerful premonitions and insights.

Another line Shaune did like, that makes the reader feel dumb if they don’t take the action you want them to is, “I’m going to be pulling this soon for obvious reasons.” Now if the reasons are obvious, and I don’t see them, then I must be dumb. The implication here is that this site’s gonna be pulled down soon.

Are You Conscious About Your Use of Events – Something Happened And Using This Event To Bring People To Your Copy?

A server going down is an example of an event occurring.

Trey used this one of his autoresponder series when it happened and built a few messages around it. You want to look for opportunities because in the context of events, you get higher readership and higher conversion.

You can’t do it all the time because then it gets tired.

Trey confirms for Shaune that the stuff he talks about in his training, that no one else talks about in tandem, connected the way he does, is extremely valid. And it was rare for him to see someone using these elements unconsciously the way Trey does.

Now this is the end of the interview notes.

This style of copy that Trey writes is needed in an era where copy is so commoditized now. Trey shines a light on how you can do it different and more effectively but Shaune is the guy who shows you how to do it yourself.

I know I’ve told you before, first in 2008, and not too long ago in my 10,000 word post, and now I’m telling you again. If you’re interested in making what you say more compelling, you need to get a hold of Shaune Clarke’s audio coaching program or get in touch with him to see if there’s any way he could coach you personally which is highly unlikely being that he’s focusing intensely on coaching speakers at the moment.

But the next best thing you could do is get Trey Smith’s er, I mean Andre Chaperon’s “Auto Responder Madness 2.0” course to show you how to write emails that keep people engaged and eager to take action. Now that I think about it makes even more sense that Andre Chaperon is Trey Smith being that Jason Moffat promoted the course when it re-released not long ago. For all I know, I’m late to the party and every one already knows this. Hahaha!

Anyhow, take what you discovered here and go put it to work for you.

Talk soon,

Lewis LaLanne a.k.a. Note Taking Nerd #2 a.k.a. L.L. Cool Nerd

PS. Maybe you know this already, maybe you don’t, but only up until a couple of months ago when we put up our store on our site, ALL of our income was generated via our email copy. And now, most of it still is. We put together a course that shows you everything we know about how we supported ourselves for a few years with just this tool and if you want to learn everything we’ve discovered and tested in the real world on how you can write emails that bring you money, click here now . . .